+0
permalink
In reading over some of the postings, I get the feeling that most people here are not really into Zen. Is this true? Is this forum like all others, no matter the title. I was hoping to find like minded souls. Are you there?
+0
permalink
I can't claim to be remotely Buddhist, but I try and sum up my spiritual beliefs/practices as Pantheist with Zen praxis and Taoist mythology. I'm afraid that sounds kinda highfalutin', though! It's all about simplicity and balance and being present in every moment.
+0
permalink
It sounds like Zen to me - not the Buddhist version, but just Zen. Would you care to elaborate? I'm not Buddhist. But I am into Zen. My belief system is eclectic too.
+0
permalink
Christian over here. I can appreciate what little I know of zen, but the entire spiritual system isn't for me.
+0
permalink
Hi FekketCantenel,
I can appreciate differences in beliefs. Often we decide something is not for us when we know very little about it. Exploration can bring new insights and open doors that we closed too prematurely. When you take Buddha out of the equation of Zen, there should be no problem for you as a Christian. I was raised fundamentalist Christian.
The following is a quote from the web site I share with my husband. These are his words.
Quantum Zen is the being of Zen - not from the Buddhist view but rather from the view of Quantum Mechanics, theoretical physics and cosmology. What actually is Zen? D.T Suzuki has said, "Zen is that which makes you ask the question." Beyond that, an explanation is not possible, because words do not describe reality; they only describe the mind's interpretation of reality - a rationalization of that which cannot be rationalized.
Only experience, being, is real.
Reality and our place within it - thereby, all that is - is. It cannot be destroyed; it can only be preserved or transformed. The laws of reality are preserved. The subject of reality is transformed. The physical universe is the subject of reality. When an event occurs, its impact is absorbed by the whole. Everything leaves a footprint. This is the way the universe preserves itself and stays whole. This is the way the universe remembers, learns. We are as much the universe as is all else. The universe would not be whole if even the slightest piece of itself were removed. We are thereby eternal and thereby eternally bound to the footprints we leave behind.
You can read more about it at www.whereartmeetstheheart.com
I can appreciate differences in beliefs. Often we decide something is not for us when we know very little about it. Exploration can bring new insights and open doors that we closed too prematurely. When you take Buddha out of the equation of Zen, there should be no problem for you as a Christian. I was raised fundamentalist Christian.
The following is a quote from the web site I share with my husband. These are his words.
Quantum Zen is the being of Zen - not from the Buddhist view but rather from the view of Quantum Mechanics, theoretical physics and cosmology. What actually is Zen? D.T Suzuki has said, "Zen is that which makes you ask the question." Beyond that, an explanation is not possible, because words do not describe reality; they only describe the mind's interpretation of reality - a rationalization of that which cannot be rationalized.
Only experience, being, is real.
Reality and our place within it - thereby, all that is - is. It cannot be destroyed; it can only be preserved or transformed. The laws of reality are preserved. The subject of reality is transformed. The physical universe is the subject of reality. When an event occurs, its impact is absorbed by the whole. Everything leaves a footprint. This is the way the universe preserves itself and stays whole. This is the way the universe remembers, learns. We are as much the universe as is all else. The universe would not be whole if even the slightest piece of itself were removed. We are thereby eternal and thereby eternally bound to the footprints we leave behind.
You can read more about it at www.whereartmeetstheheart.com
+0
permalink
Dear SatorisWings,
I dont like getting cerebral about things. To me, it seems to be the opposite of simple when I keep trying to label and categorize things.
Quantum Physics?! Egads! (One of my current courses is Soil Physics, and thats quite enough for me!)
[Im not the most eloquent person, so I think Im going to have to take some quotes from professional writers to express what I cant!]
[list:ffef3c30ce]1.) Pantheism:[/list:u:ffef3c30ce]
First of all, my spiritual beliefs are along the lines of Pantheism. The way I see it, if you take any of the major religions and strip away the mythology, rituals and all the extras that people have added on over the years, you get Pantheism.
This is from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheist
"Pantheism is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the Universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that natural law, existence, and the Universe (the sum total of all that is, was, and shall be) is represented in the theological principle of an abstract 'god' rather than a personal, creative deity or deities of any kind. This is the key feature which distinguishes them from panentheists and pandeists. As such, although many religions may claim to hold pantheistic elements, they are more commonly panentheistic or pandeistic in nature."
[list:ffef3c30ce]2.) Zen:[/list:u:ffef3c30ce]
Secondly, being fully aware during daily life is my approach to Zen. This is a quote from a book called Easy-to-Use Zen by David Scott:
Zen in a pragmatic tradition founded on bringing a practical approach to life from moment to moment and thus living it to the full. It celebrates everyday life as it happens. Zen is not an escape from everyday reality, but a full acceptance of it, on in which we consciously choose to embrace every aspect of out lives; the painful and the pleasurable, the limitations and the freedoms.
For me, the Four Noble Truths and The Eightfold Path are all great, but, like all the trappings of Buddhism and other religions, they are just extras, as I mentioned about.
The reality of Zen is when I'm washing the dishes in the evening. I'm not hurrying so I can sit in front of the TV or computer for several hours. I'm enjoying the feel of the warm water, the soapy suds, the smooth curves of the bowl, the delicate strength of the glasses. I'm fully present in the moment and not thinking about what I'm going to do later or tomorrow. To me, this is the essence of Zen.
[list:ffef3c30ce]3.) Taoism:[/list:u:ffef3c30ce]
Here are other Wiipedia quotes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao
A cursory glance at life on Earth or what we know of the Universe as a whole reveals refined relationships of complexity, chaotic order, creativity and sublime organization. The beauty of the unspoiled regions of the world; the harmonious complexity of natural ecosystems, have a just-so quality, an integrated wholeness that the ancient Chinese called Tao. Tao is the way of Heaven, the resolution of opposites, a way of natural harmony; of Truth, Beauty and Justice.
There is a flow and order in the Universe: this is Tao. Tao is never stagnant and is incredibly powerful and keeps things in the Universe balanced and in order. It manifests itself through cycles and transitions: change of seasons, cycle of life, shifts of power, time, and so forth. Tao is the law of Nature.
So, for me, the balance of Taoism represents the trappings and mythology of Pantheism.
I hope this explains what I meant more clearly! These simple parts of my life make me feel very content and relaxed much of the time.
I dont like getting cerebral about things. To me, it seems to be the opposite of simple when I keep trying to label and categorize things.
Quantum Physics?! Egads! (One of my current courses is Soil Physics, and thats quite enough for me!)
[Im not the most eloquent person, so I think Im going to have to take some quotes from professional writers to express what I cant!]
[list:ffef3c30ce]1.) Pantheism:[/list:u:ffef3c30ce]
First of all, my spiritual beliefs are along the lines of Pantheism. The way I see it, if you take any of the major religions and strip away the mythology, rituals and all the extras that people have added on over the years, you get Pantheism.
This is from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheist
"Pantheism is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the Universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that natural law, existence, and the Universe (the sum total of all that is, was, and shall be) is represented in the theological principle of an abstract 'god' rather than a personal, creative deity or deities of any kind. This is the key feature which distinguishes them from panentheists and pandeists. As such, although many religions may claim to hold pantheistic elements, they are more commonly panentheistic or pandeistic in nature."
[list:ffef3c30ce]2.) Zen:[/list:u:ffef3c30ce]
Secondly, being fully aware during daily life is my approach to Zen. This is a quote from a book called Easy-to-Use Zen by David Scott:
Zen in a pragmatic tradition founded on bringing a practical approach to life from moment to moment and thus living it to the full. It celebrates everyday life as it happens. Zen is not an escape from everyday reality, but a full acceptance of it, on in which we consciously choose to embrace every aspect of out lives; the painful and the pleasurable, the limitations and the freedoms.
For me, the Four Noble Truths and The Eightfold Path are all great, but, like all the trappings of Buddhism and other religions, they are just extras, as I mentioned about.
The reality of Zen is when I'm washing the dishes in the evening. I'm not hurrying so I can sit in front of the TV or computer for several hours. I'm enjoying the feel of the warm water, the soapy suds, the smooth curves of the bowl, the delicate strength of the glasses. I'm fully present in the moment and not thinking about what I'm going to do later or tomorrow. To me, this is the essence of Zen.
[list:ffef3c30ce]3.) Taoism:[/list:u:ffef3c30ce]
Here are other Wiipedia quotes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao
A cursory glance at life on Earth or what we know of the Universe as a whole reveals refined relationships of complexity, chaotic order, creativity and sublime organization. The beauty of the unspoiled regions of the world; the harmonious complexity of natural ecosystems, have a just-so quality, an integrated wholeness that the ancient Chinese called Tao. Tao is the way of Heaven, the resolution of opposites, a way of natural harmony; of Truth, Beauty and Justice.
There is a flow and order in the Universe: this is Tao. Tao is never stagnant and is incredibly powerful and keeps things in the Universe balanced and in order. It manifests itself through cycles and transitions: change of seasons, cycle of life, shifts of power, time, and so forth. Tao is the law of Nature.
So, for me, the balance of Taoism represents the trappings and mythology of Pantheism.
I hope this explains what I meant more clearly! These simple parts of my life make me feel very content and relaxed much of the time.
+0
permalink
Zen Lady,
You don't have to be cerebral. Because to be cerebral you rationalize and when you rationalize you lose the concept of Zen. You cannot rationalize that which cannot be rationalized.
Thank you for sharing your ideas. They seem very compatible with mine. I took a class in Comparative Religions when I was in college. I found it very liberating. I too found that beneath the mythology and the storylines stuffed in between, all beliefs are pretty much the same. A good book about this is by Huston Smith. It's called The World's Religions. His parents were Christian missionaries in the far east. He wrote this wonderful book which demonstrates that beneath it all, religious beliefs are the same.
Quantuam Zen is not Soil Physics. Nor it is Quantum Physics. If you explored it, I believe you would find it very compatible with your beliefs. The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra and The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukav are two excellent books on the subject. They both describe physics, and they both describe the eastern philosophies, but coming from opposite approaches, and they arrive at similar conclusions. I heard Fritjof speak at a conference once. It was quite interesting. He wasn't a boring scientist. He was enlightened.
I am not at all religious. But I am spiritual. That spirituality does not reside in any particular belief system, and it is ever evolving as I open myself to all-that-is. And it's beauty lies in it's simplicity and in enjoying/experiencing the moment.
You don't have to be cerebral. Because to be cerebral you rationalize and when you rationalize you lose the concept of Zen. You cannot rationalize that which cannot be rationalized.
Thank you for sharing your ideas. They seem very compatible with mine. I took a class in Comparative Religions when I was in college. I found it very liberating. I too found that beneath the mythology and the storylines stuffed in between, all beliefs are pretty much the same. A good book about this is by Huston Smith. It's called The World's Religions. His parents were Christian missionaries in the far east. He wrote this wonderful book which demonstrates that beneath it all, religious beliefs are the same.
Quantuam Zen is not Soil Physics. Nor it is Quantum Physics. If you explored it, I believe you would find it very compatible with your beliefs. The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra and The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukav are two excellent books on the subject. They both describe physics, and they both describe the eastern philosophies, but coming from opposite approaches, and they arrive at similar conclusions. I heard Fritjof speak at a conference once. It was quite interesting. He wasn't a boring scientist. He was enlightened.
I am not at all religious. But I am spiritual. That spirituality does not reside in any particular belief system, and it is ever evolving as I open myself to all-that-is. And it's beauty lies in it's simplicity and in enjoying/experiencing the moment.
+0
permalink
I once read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" in the expectation that it would teach me about Zen and/or Motorcycle maintenance. It failed on both counts. However, it did leave a lasting legacy with me. At one point the author talked about his work of writing technical assembly instructions and he mentioned that he always felt that he was leaving out a very important part. He thought that each manual should start with the instruction "Begin with a clear mind" or something similar. I subsequently came to interpret that as meaning that attitude plays a huge part in our ability to follow instructions adeptly. Too much instruction focuses only on the precise method for doing something when really we learn mostly from our mistakes. I think that tuition that focuses on attitude first and then describes where and how you will likely struggle to get things done has great power in getting people to learn quickly and without discouragement.
From reading the above responses I realise that I can say that I practice Zen to a certain extent. I have developed my own rationalisation of what ails most of us and it comes down to seeking to do things that are impossible to do in the moment. That doesn't mean absolutely impossible or never possible but impossible for a particular individual in that moment with whatever skills, resources and capabilities that person has right there at that point in time.
Whenever I find myself blocked or struggling I think "What am I attempting to do in the moment that is personally impossible for me to do in this moment?" and I immediately get clarity and I usually know what to do next: more preparation to enable me to fulfill whatever particular desire that I have in that moment.
After a lot of deep introspection I came to some interesting conclusions about how the mind works that enable me to eliminate negative emotions consistently and almost immediately and to make great use of the moment. You can read about it here: http://www.nickpagan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/how-to-operate-your-brain-perfectly-v10.pdf
I hope that you enjoy it
Nick
From reading the above responses I realise that I can say that I practice Zen to a certain extent. I have developed my own rationalisation of what ails most of us and it comes down to seeking to do things that are impossible to do in the moment. That doesn't mean absolutely impossible or never possible but impossible for a particular individual in that moment with whatever skills, resources and capabilities that person has right there at that point in time.
Whenever I find myself blocked or struggling I think "What am I attempting to do in the moment that is personally impossible for me to do in this moment?" and I immediately get clarity and I usually know what to do next: more preparation to enable me to fulfill whatever particular desire that I have in that moment.
After a lot of deep introspection I came to some interesting conclusions about how the mind works that enable me to eliminate negative emotions consistently and almost immediately and to make great use of the moment. You can read about it here: http://www.nickpagan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/how-to-operate-your-brain-perfectly-v10.pdf
I hope that you enjoy it
Nick
+0
permalink
nick,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I keep forgetting to check the bulk mail section of the email address I use for this site and other forums. I didn't realize your response was there. I never read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Although I remember when it was released. D.T Suzuki's What is Zen is a good one to read to understand Zen.
I too am in the process of learning to eliminate negative responses. I'm in the middle of a trying period of my life. My elderly mother is dying. But it has turned in to a long drawn out process that taxes the soul. For a number of reasons that I won't go into, I am the only one who can handle her affairs, pay the bills, sell her house to pay for her care, etc. I don't want to do it, flat out. However, I'm doing it. Doing it is the right thing. She was a good mother. So on to your article about fight, flight, etc, the stuff scientists have been studying for a while. Fighting - yep I have to sometimes so people don't take advantage of or mistreat my mother. Flight - can't do it until she passes away and all her affairs are handled. Submit - well -its hard to say really. I wouldn't call it submitting. I do what I must do. Redirect? I guess. Etc. You make some good points. When you get to the part about going with the flow...that's what I'm doing, of sorts. It's a matter of setting up the steps I need to take, doing them, and then releasing. I work to stop the rationalization process. I work to stop the guilt. I work to stop the shoulda, woulda, couldas. I stare at nature and let it soothe me. I better learn to compartmentalize so that I can still enjoy parts of my life, even when other parts are really stressful. My bottomline goal is to reach the point where no matter what happens I will be mellow, peaceful even in the presence of chaos.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I keep forgetting to check the bulk mail section of the email address I use for this site and other forums. I didn't realize your response was there. I never read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Although I remember when it was released. D.T Suzuki's What is Zen is a good one to read to understand Zen.
I too am in the process of learning to eliminate negative responses. I'm in the middle of a trying period of my life. My elderly mother is dying. But it has turned in to a long drawn out process that taxes the soul. For a number of reasons that I won't go into, I am the only one who can handle her affairs, pay the bills, sell her house to pay for her care, etc. I don't want to do it, flat out. However, I'm doing it. Doing it is the right thing. She was a good mother. So on to your article about fight, flight, etc, the stuff scientists have been studying for a while. Fighting - yep I have to sometimes so people don't take advantage of or mistreat my mother. Flight - can't do it until she passes away and all her affairs are handled. Submit - well -its hard to say really. I wouldn't call it submitting. I do what I must do. Redirect? I guess. Etc. You make some good points. When you get to the part about going with the flow...that's what I'm doing, of sorts. It's a matter of setting up the steps I need to take, doing them, and then releasing. I work to stop the rationalization process. I work to stop the guilt. I work to stop the shoulda, woulda, couldas. I stare at nature and let it soothe me. I better learn to compartmentalize so that I can still enjoy parts of my life, even when other parts are really stressful. My bottomline goal is to reach the point where no matter what happens I will be mellow, peaceful even in the presence of chaos.
Thanks for your thoughts.
+0
permalink
SatorisWings,
I sympathize with your current problems. Accepting the reality of a situation that we don't want and don't like doesn't come easily but sometimes no excellent solutions to real world events exist - especially for those things already past. We can often learn from painful and unwanted events, but not always. In the end we have to accept our reality, painful as that might be. Once we do that we stop struggling against the impossible and the inevitable and our balance and cheerfulness can return.
I wish you well during what is clearly a difficult time for you.
I visited your site and enjoyed the tales of your cats and raccoons. I also enjoyed the page of quotations very much. I particularly liked Phil's quote:
As long as you draw attention to all of your differences,
you will be treated differently.
- Phil
That little piece of wisdom gives me insight into a problem of mine that's been bugging me for a long time, so please pass on my thanks to Phil.
Take care,
Nick
I sympathize with your current problems. Accepting the reality of a situation that we don't want and don't like doesn't come easily but sometimes no excellent solutions to real world events exist - especially for those things already past. We can often learn from painful and unwanted events, but not always. In the end we have to accept our reality, painful as that might be. Once we do that we stop struggling against the impossible and the inevitable and our balance and cheerfulness can return.
I wish you well during what is clearly a difficult time for you.
I visited your site and enjoyed the tales of your cats and raccoons. I also enjoyed the page of quotations very much. I particularly liked Phil's quote:
As long as you draw attention to all of your differences,
you will be treated differently.
- Phil
That little piece of wisdom gives me insight into a problem of mine that's been bugging me for a long time, so please pass on my thanks to Phil.
Take care,
Nick
+0
permalink
I am not into any set of beliefs but zen was a doorway for me to drop other beliefs so not sure what I am (and that is a good thing)
+0
permalink
The reality of Zen is when I'm washing the dishes in the evening. I'm not hurrying so I can sit in front of the TV or computer for several hours. I'm enjoying the feel of the warm water, the soapy suds, the smooth curves of the bowl, the delicate strength of the glasses. I'm fully present in the moment and not thinking about what I'm going to do later or tomorrow. To me, this is the essence of Zen.-"Zen Lady"
good stuff!
I agreee :D
+0
permalink
Hey! You are the first person I have met who has also read The Tao of Physics, a powerful book for me. When I read your Quantum Zen post, I naturally thought of this book, and now I know why. ;) Before I found Zen, I thought Tao was incredible and was into that... you know, the whole idea that each moment exists. This I still agree with, but a focal idea in Zen is that only now exists. I do not think that Tao and Zen in this are necessarily exclusive. However, The Tao of Physics quite frankly does not teach you anything practical. It is just a bunch of ideas. That's the funny thing about it... it talks a lot about how words cannot express reality, yet it's just a bunch of impractical words. Well, that is probably unjust... I think words, because we are trapped in their usage, may be used in the gateway to escape them.
I am a beginner in Zen. I think it is not a good idea to worry about whether or not everyone here is Buddhist or what have you. This is a practical website which does not throw language like "Zen" and "Buddhism" around in your face and which, therefore, may lead people to Zen without them even realizing it. As someone said quite well, Zen is about the practice. If people are here and practicing, then I'd say they are at least somewhat "like-minded" to you.
Have you read any books on Zen? I have received two books on Zen as gifts and love them both: The Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh and Crooked Cucumber: The Life and Zen Teaching of Shunryu Suzuki. The first is a practical book on meditation, the second basically a tale of Zen. It was Crooked Cucumber which got me interested in Zen, a good introduction to what guided practice is like... However, I am unable to join a zazen group right now, so the former book is of greater use to me.
FekketCantanel: There isn't much spiritual about Zen. Other sects of Buddhism, perhaps. But not Zen, at least not the Zen I know... There are also many sects of Zen, although I'm not sure I'd call them sects because Zen to me is only metaphorically a religion. The branches (better word) I am familiar with (Soto, Rinzai, etc..) might only involve spiritual aspects in way of ritual, which belongs to practice.
I am a beginner in Zen. I think it is not a good idea to worry about whether or not everyone here is Buddhist or what have you. This is a practical website which does not throw language like "Zen" and "Buddhism" around in your face and which, therefore, may lead people to Zen without them even realizing it. As someone said quite well, Zen is about the practice. If people are here and practicing, then I'd say they are at least somewhat "like-minded" to you.
Have you read any books on Zen? I have received two books on Zen as gifts and love them both: The Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh and Crooked Cucumber: The Life and Zen Teaching of Shunryu Suzuki. The first is a practical book on meditation, the second basically a tale of Zen. It was Crooked Cucumber which got me interested in Zen, a good introduction to what guided practice is like... However, I am unable to join a zazen group right now, so the former book is of greater use to me.
FekketCantanel: There isn't much spiritual about Zen. Other sects of Buddhism, perhaps. But not Zen, at least not the Zen I know... There are also many sects of Zen, although I'm not sure I'd call them sects because Zen to me is only metaphorically a religion. The branches (better word) I am familiar with (Soto, Rinzai, etc..) might only involve spiritual aspects in way of ritual, which belongs to practice.
+0
permalink
this quote by Jed McKenna says it for me
"I never thought of waking up as a spiritual pursuit, I just wanted to get to the truth. Looking back, I can see where I might have used the word "infinity" in a koan-like manner; kind of a Western version of mu. Infinity is beautiful; it destroys everything it touches. It annihilates all concepts, all beliefs, all sense of self. No teacher, teaching, book or practice could ever be as effective as simply allowing the thought of infinity to slowly devour you."
"I never thought of waking up as a spiritual pursuit, I just wanted to get to the truth. Looking back, I can see where I might have used the word "infinity" in a koan-like manner; kind of a Western version of mu. Infinity is beautiful; it destroys everything it touches. It annihilates all concepts, all beliefs, all sense of self. No teacher, teaching, book or practice could ever be as effective as simply allowing the thought of infinity to slowly devour you."
+0
permalink
zenjiryu
I like the Jed McKenna quote. It is reassuring to me somehow. And I too like Zen Lady's words about doing the dishes. It's very Zen. I agree Zen can be a doorway. It is very freeing.
Nick,
I relayed your message to Phil. He's pleased you found his words helpful. He's the one who introduced me to Zen. One of my favorite quotes that Phil has on our site is:
If a problem has a solution, why worry about it?
If a problem has no solution, why worry about it?
If you can't fight and you can't flee, flow.
- author unknown
I try to keep that in mind in my current state relative to my mother.
Louche,
The books I've read on Zen are listed above. I have not read the other ones you mention. I don't consider Zen a religion either. It's a way of being. If everyone adopted Zen, no matter what their religion there would be no war. I love the oneness aspect. I also love Lao Tzu.
I like the Jed McKenna quote. It is reassuring to me somehow. And I too like Zen Lady's words about doing the dishes. It's very Zen. I agree Zen can be a doorway. It is very freeing.
Nick,
I relayed your message to Phil. He's pleased you found his words helpful. He's the one who introduced me to Zen. One of my favorite quotes that Phil has on our site is:
If a problem has a solution, why worry about it?
If a problem has no solution, why worry about it?
If you can't fight and you can't flee, flow.
- author unknown
I try to keep that in mind in my current state relative to my mother.
Louche,
The books I've read on Zen are listed above. I have not read the other ones you mention. I don't consider Zen a religion either. It's a way of being. If everyone adopted Zen, no matter what their religion there would be no war. I love the oneness aspect. I also love Lao Tzu.
+0
permalink
thanks SatorisWings
sounds like a number of us are kinda on the same page with most of this and it is neat to hear other folks articulate it in words since most of us know it can never be said in words since "The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" - Lao-tzu
I leave you with one more of my favorite quotes from a teacher who has pointed me to the moon many a time
"If you prefer smoke over fire then get up now and leave. For I do not intend to perfume your mind's clothing with more sooty knowledge. No, I have something else in mind. Today I hold a flame in my left hand and a sword in my right. There will be no damage control today. For the real you is in a mood to plunder your riches and fling you nakedly into such breathtaking poverty that all that will be left of you will be a tendency to shine. So don't just sit around this flame choking on your mind. For this is no campfire song to mindlessly mantra yourself to sleep with. Jump now into the space between thoughts and exit this dream before I burn the damn place down." - Adyashanti
sounds like a number of us are kinda on the same page with most of this and it is neat to hear other folks articulate it in words since most of us know it can never be said in words since "The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" - Lao-tzu
I leave you with one more of my favorite quotes from a teacher who has pointed me to the moon many a time
"If you prefer smoke over fire then get up now and leave. For I do not intend to perfume your mind's clothing with more sooty knowledge. No, I have something else in mind. Today I hold a flame in my left hand and a sword in my right. There will be no damage control today. For the real you is in a mood to plunder your riches and fling you nakedly into such breathtaking poverty that all that will be left of you will be a tendency to shine. So don't just sit around this flame choking on your mind. For this is no campfire song to mindlessly mantra yourself to sleep with. Jump now into the space between thoughts and exit this dream before I burn the damn place down." - Adyashanti
+0
permalink
Hi all,
Just to jump in a bit here: I'm a longtime reader of the blog and I also happen to be a Zen Buddhist. I'm part of a motley crew of nutballs known as the Treeleaf Zendo. Our outlook is very down-to-earth and focuses on the day to day. We don't do much in the way of ritual or worship any Bodhisattvas. Our practice focuses on the simple 'just sit' form of breath meditation.
In the end we're just some fun people trying to wake up and experience the perfection of life.
Did I mention we're also the first Online-only Zen Sangha ('congregation') in Buddhist history?
For our teacher Jundo's daily sitting videos: http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com
Visit the forum here: http://www.treeleaf.org/forum
I hope this brings new faces to our community, and I'm glad to be a new part of this one!
Justin
Just to jump in a bit here: I'm a longtime reader of the blog and I also happen to be a Zen Buddhist. I'm part of a motley crew of nutballs known as the Treeleaf Zendo. Our outlook is very down-to-earth and focuses on the day to day. We don't do much in the way of ritual or worship any Bodhisattvas. Our practice focuses on the simple 'just sit' form of breath meditation.
In the end we're just some fun people trying to wake up and experience the perfection of life.
Did I mention we're also the first Online-only Zen Sangha ('congregation') in Buddhist history?
For our teacher Jundo's daily sitting videos: http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com
Visit the forum here: http://www.treeleaf.org/forum
I hope this brings new faces to our community, and I'm glad to be a new part of this one!
Justin
+0
permalink
zenjiryu
I love that quote by Adyashanti. And yes, we lose things when we put them into words, and yet, how else can I communicate with you through the internet?
Justin, I'll check out the links you provided. Thanks. I always think to myself that if everyone was Buddhist in one form or another it would be a peaceful world.
I love that quote by Adyashanti. And yes, we lose things when we put them into words, and yet, how else can I communicate with you through the internet?
Justin, I'll check out the links you provided. Thanks. I always think to myself that if everyone was Buddhist in one form or another it would be a peaceful world.
+0
permalink
I've read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". Sometimes, a book doesn't go where the reader would expect, or like it, to go. ZAMM, as I recall from (too) many years ago, doesn't dwell much on Zen. But it is a good read anyway, just for what it is, despite the slight bait-n-switch in the title.
Minor aside: I lost some of the value in a different good book because I raced through some parts that I thought weren't related to the main thread... and then at the end realized that the author, and the book, had really changed focus, and I was resisting, and skimmed over some weighty stuff.
But, ZAMM...: the theme that I recall most strongly was the (attempted) debunking of Aristotle, and the criticism of his impact on Western thought. In ZAMM (that abrev looks ridiculous!) the foil for Aristotle was the sophists, rather than the Eastern heavy-weights mentioned above. The book's point was that Aristotle represented the stark superiority (and victory) of truth over beauty, and that, in that victory, much was lost in terms of the "Western" perspective on the world.
It is worth reading just as a critical history of Greek philo, as long as you don't demand that it deliver on the Zen promise embedded in the title.
The sequel, "Lila" is not as good, but still recommendable. The plot and the philosophy don't mix well, I thought, and so I skimmed some of the plotty parts just to get back to the philo. The philosophy of Lila is less historical and more the author's invention, which is good or bad depending on your perspective.
Minor aside: I lost some of the value in a different good book because I raced through some parts that I thought weren't related to the main thread... and then at the end realized that the author, and the book, had really changed focus, and I was resisting, and skimmed over some weighty stuff.
But, ZAMM...: the theme that I recall most strongly was the (attempted) debunking of Aristotle, and the criticism of his impact on Western thought. In ZAMM (that abrev looks ridiculous!) the foil for Aristotle was the sophists, rather than the Eastern heavy-weights mentioned above. The book's point was that Aristotle represented the stark superiority (and victory) of truth over beauty, and that, in that victory, much was lost in terms of the "Western" perspective on the world.
It is worth reading just as a critical history of Greek philo, as long as you don't demand that it deliver on the Zen promise embedded in the title.
The sequel, "Lila" is not as good, but still recommendable. The plot and the philosophy don't mix well, I thought, and so I skimmed some of the plotty parts just to get back to the philo. The philosophy of Lila is less historical and more the author's invention, which is good or bad depending on your perspective.
+0
permalink
Hi,
If you're interested in Jed McKenna and real, authentic awakening, you might be interested in taking a look at my reviews of his first and third books on Amazon (the titles are Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damnedest Thing and Spiritual Warfare) and also at my website www.discountenlightenment.com which deals with much of the material in McKenna's books.
Enjoy.
If you're interested in Jed McKenna and real, authentic awakening, you might be interested in taking a look at my reviews of his first and third books on Amazon (the titles are Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damnedest Thing and Spiritual Warfare) and also at my website www.discountenlightenment.com which deals with much of the material in McKenna's books.
Enjoy.
This Topic Is Locked To Guest Posts
It's been a while since this topic was active, if you'd like to get it going again, please post as a registered member
