Should the next signup thread be locked on a certain date?

7 days would ensure new people can stumble in over a weekend.

beyond that you are a quarter into the goal time, so perhaps should gauge your own progress.

there could also be a late bloomers challenge thread not dedicated to any particular month so that people can participate without disrupting an established group.

I agree that it seems pointless to start a "monthly" challenge after a certain point in the month. However, the spirit of this forum is community and inclusion-- locking a thread, and therefore locking somebody out of becoming involved with ZenHabits because it is past the arbitrary "cutoff," does not support these values. If somebody wants to join a monthly challenge with one day left, they should be able to. It isn't the role of anybody on this forum to tell people when they can and cannot receive motivation and accountability from the forum at large.

Just my opinion. In the big picture, it doesn't really matter either way, so let's make sure nobody gets heated over this debate.

I am in favour of locking the thread at a certain point, since it increases its effectiveness of the challenge as a whole. It was a bit unfortunate timing in that one of Zenhabits latest posts had another link to the challenge which must have drawn more people when signup was locked. So my suggestions I would explore are:

To have a notice saying to those that come late saying they can get a reminder for the next month. And a way this could be done perhaps is to send reminders a couple days before the end of the month to all the forum users. In any case some kind of reminderservice would be a great idea! Of course its a no brainer to have zenhabits posts link to the challenge comfortably before the 'cutoff-date'.

PHPBB does indeed have a mass email feature. Thanks for bringing it up, Peter; regardless of the outcome of this poll, I'll be sure to utilize it next month!

Also, I think we need Mr. Babouta's input on this. I'll email him a link to this thread.

I'm okay with locking it, but I think 5 days was probably too soon. Perhaps after 10 days? You can still change a lot with 25/26 days left in the month. (or 24, as February would have it!)

Also, I've noticed that not everyone posts what they're doing in the topic, they just jump in to the daily updates. So hey, thats always an option on their part too.

Basically, I'm repeating what I said on the other thread, so that it's available to those who might be voting in the poll. I believe that it is meaningful to lock the thread after five days or so has passed since the beginning of the month, and keeping this a monthly challenge. There is something about deadlines and specific time periods that make it both more attractive and easier to set and keep goals than open-ended challenges. I believe that the thread lock is an important contribution from a psychological standpoint to the success of the project. Those who come in mid-month can certainly set their own goals and go ahead and post their results on the daily threads without being part of the official monthly challenge list.

As far as the number of days before locking, I think five is about right. It would allow for people missing a thread because of a long weekend or short illness, but still retain the impact of a month-long challenge.

I absolutely see your points, FekketCantenel. Nonetheless, I voted against a thread lock. People should be able to join the challenge at a later point, e.g. they didn't find ZenHabits until the 15th of a month. If they had to wait for the beginning of the next month, there is the danger they lose focus and drop the plan to participate in the next month. Late-starters should have the possibility to post in the daily-report-threads and therefore also should have the possibility to tell the community members what their goal is in the challenge-thread.
If the "Post your monthly challenge here"-thread is made sticky, this solves the problem of the thread going up and down in the forum overview.

Just my two cents. :)

I too voted no. All the above points are valid, however my arguments are based on 'soft' issues:
1. I have always felt one of Zen Habit's attractions (both the blog and the forum) is the welcoming and approachable feel of it. To anyone who does stumble on the blog or forum after whatever date is chosen for close-off, their initial feeling may be one of elitism. Some people may well want to try and get a feel for the whole 'challenge thing' in the last days of the month before seriously knuckling down for a full month challenge, why hamper them.
2. Immediacy is important. People may stumble in late, see they can't join now, and never end up doing it. Zen Habits has always struck me as being about helping people and if just one person loses out on the help to be had because they couldn't take part immediately that would be very sad.
3. This is not a game or sport, with formal rules, nor should it be. If someone starts late, so be it, at least they are starting. No one loses out because someone starts late, it doesn't affect anyone else's challenges, it's just another face on the forum that will be a 'full' challenger next month.

Finally, and this one's important:
4. If it aint broke, don't fix it! ;)

Great thoughts by FlintZA, I would like to comment on it. I take an interest in learning what works and wasn't works in terms working with accountability via the internet. And I'm pretty much in unison with the thoughts that Happy Writer has echoed here and in the other thread.

To comment on your points though,

1) This I think is all to do with how you communicate it. If there is a notice saying
'the challenge group assembles before the 5th of (or later date) of every month, please join us <enter the next available date>, all registered forumusers will receive a reminder on the xth and the xth. Feel free to play along in the daily threads if you want to get a feel for the challenge.
And to add to your 1st point, I don't see whats unwelcoming or remotely elitist about a cutoff date, this is how life works. Any group activity starts and finishes at specific times, that is the general nature of group activities. This is about accountability helping to make people's lives better. If you can just enter at any point and you can leave at any point, it creates less meaningful traction.

2) But the challenge still is open all days of the month, you're subscribing to something that starts and finishes (in this case a monthly challenge) so you naturally sign up for the upcoming challenge. And like I mentioned, a reminder service is a great way to reinforce people to participate and not lose out or forget. The desire to participate in a challenge won't dissipate if you can't enter immediately, like happy writer hints, it just makes the pull bigger! That is a good thing. It has more transformational power

3) Nothing stops people from gently starting a challenge and possibly even participating in the daily threads. But like Happy Writer hints at, the psychological power and traction that is caused by a group that helps you be accountable has its greatest impact when you set at least a few boundaries. It's a community thing, and you want the challenge to have momentum. Forming a habit is all about setting boundaries...'now I'm going to make an empowering change and stick to it'. That's how people benefit from it.

To make people benefit from the community you've got to harness it's power. It's better to have 50 people making a committed effort for 25-31 days then 200 people 'trying' to change with people flooding in over the course of the first half month.

In summary, I think you are questioning in a lighthearted way whether a cut-off date is in the spirit of Zenhabits, and although I haven't been visiting for years... I think zenhabits is about making a meaningful difference and this I think this helps. Whether the cut-off date would be 5 days or 10...but I'd recommend earlier rather than later...

No way. I've participated in these Challenges since the beginning. I didn't think I would participate this month, but Leo's post today on fitness inspired me to join the Challenge. I think this should be as inclusive as possible. Why on earth limit it?

Also, as the month goes on, the number of participants has always dropped radically. Not that that is a predictor of the future. But, nonetheless, the more the merrier!

Thanks for your thoughts on my comments peterrh.
I must say if a cutoff date were actually communicated whenever the monthly challenges are mentioned on the blog, then locking the challenge thread would make more sense. Balfour's comment is interesting in this regard, perhaps if the decision is made to lock the thread after all, Leo might considering trying to reserve posts such as today's (which are naturally challenge-encouraging ) for the beginning of the month to encourage readers to start early.

Other than that, i think the way that you and I see the challenge is somewhat different, I suppose the poll will determine who's view determines it's form in future :)

I help run a challenge on another forum and we have time guidelines but they aren't rigidly enforced. If someone is late, ok so their late. Everyone knows it cause the post has a time stamp yet they still get to participate. If the purpose of the exercise is to encourage people to do something then putting up obstacles to them doing it kind of defeats the purpose.

As to the counter-argument that allowing some people to be late will negatively affect those that are on time... to that I paraphrase the Buddha who enjoined us to not worry so much about what other people do or don't do but instead focus on what you do or don't do. If you're gonna say "Well what's the point of me doing this exercise properly if other people are gonna be slackers about it," well then it seems to me you've missed the point of the exercise (which is to improve yourself).

Just my two cents.

I voted to lock the thread. I explained why (and a couple other things ;) ) in another thread:

I looked forward to starting for the first time this month, and though I almost missed starting! (Had I actually missed, I would have simply added it to my calendar so I'd be sure to remember next time.) I believe the waiting time was extremely helpful in getting me mentally prepared and building up the will to follow through. I've noticed the same thing in other people, in many aspects of life. This leads me to believe that keeping the availability limited makes the 'item' more valuable.

Not only that, the motivation very-much does come from the whole 'group effort' thing. Camaraderie and all that. And it's already a sizable group. It's nice for those of us who made sure to be here, that we can build that camaraderie without constant inundation of new faces to adjust to.

Please lock it. And not just x days before the end of the month... but x days INTO the month. Afterall, it's not a "21 days" habit, it's a "calendar-month" habit. Personally, I'd take it from 5 days down to 3! Three easily accounts for months that start on weekends, etc. But 5 is still reasonable. However, 10 days... 1/3 of the month!... is not reasonable IMHO, but this is not my site, nor am I a moderator here. So I respect whatever decision is made.

The spirit of the challenges dictate that you can't start any ol' time. (It's to establish a habit within the calendar month, and you need *at least* 21 days to do that!) Closing the topics is completely relevant and necessary to accomplish the goal of the whole Monthly Challenge. And if we're not looking to accomplish that... why are we here???

Meaning: Take the "monthly" out of it and make it an anytime thing, and it'll lose its attraction and it's power, just like Peter said. For that matter, you may as well just do away with the whole "monthly" part of it and have a single open forum that never changes, instead of a new one that gets created every month. Doesn't sound so attractive, eh?

I also love the ideas mentioned here about stating in the description that it is open from 1-x days, and that a reminder email will be sent from the forums. That would go far in terms of keeping people included while still maintaining the order that was clearly intended from the beginning concept.

I'm anti-locking for the same reason as many who have already posted. My main reasons are inclusivity and the fact that locking, for me at least, implies that if an individual hasn't started by a certain day, there's no point.

As to the counter-argument that allowing some people to be late will negatively affect those that are on time... to that I paraphrase the Buddha who enjoined us to not worry so much about what other people do or don't do but instead focus on what you do or don't do. If you're gonna say "Well what's the point of me doing this exercise properly if other people are gonna be slackers about it," well then it seems to me you've missed the point of the exercise (which is to improve yourself).

-"kc2dpt"

Very true.

I guess the same could be said of those who don't start because they can't post in a single thread where others have posted their intended habit for the month. Hmmm...

locking ... implies that if an individual hasn't started by a certain day, there's no point.

-"marisa"

But isn't that *the* point? 21 days to make a habit... if you're trying to make a habit in a certain calendar month... it needs to be started at least 21 days before the end of that month.


??? It seems so simple to me. Do we really think people are so fragile as to break when they've missed a cutoff date when a new one is no more than 26 days away (assuming a 5th-of-the-month cutoff date)? My main spot online is in the middle of a whole group of pregnant, hormonal women (read: emotional and easily offended!), and even they would not take issue with this. I just don't see what's so wrong with boundaries anymore.

Closing threads is not mean, elitist, or exclusionary. It's simply acknowledging reality.

J.
(No, I'm not pregnant and hormonal! LOL. I just don't get the argument with acknowledging reality. )

You could sort of compare it to a university class in which the professor presents data in an organized fashion. If students are allowed to join up in the middle of the course, not only will they be unfamiliar with the data already presented, but they won't have gotten to know their classmates and the professor. The metaphor isn't perfect, but I figured I'd throw that in.

As far as I can see, the Challenges are meant to be a community project (why else have the participators post progress online and in public?). Therefore, I think everyone should be on the same page from the beginning.

Hi everyone!

Even though this is my very first monthly challenge, and I'm one of the "late joiners" (Feb 5th), I thought I'd give you my two cents.

I guess the same could be said of those who don't start because they can't post in a single thread where others have posted their intended habit for the month. Hmmm...

-"Miss J."

First of all, I have to point out that first-time joiners don't know how the system works... therefore, it's harder for them to see the loopholes (for lack of a better word). When I joined, I thought that somehow you had to write in the post in order for it to work... it doesn't take long before you know better, but if I had tried to sign up and I had received a message saying the forum was locked, I would've thought: "Well where do I start now?" and probably would've simply dropped it.

But isn't that *the* point? 21 days to make a habit... if you're trying to make a habit in a certain calendar month... it needs to be started at least 21 days before the end of that month.

??? It seems so simple to me. Do we really think people are so fragile as to break when they've missed a cutoff date when a new one is no more than 26 days away (assuming a 5th-of-the-month cutoff date)?

-"Miss J."

As for this argument (sorry Miss J., I keep quoting you, but only because you were the last to post!), I don't think it's a question of whether people are too fragile. I don't think anyone would take it personal if the forum were locked, but lots of people (me included) would just get lazy and forget to check back. Let's not forget that many people (again, that's my case) have probably heard about the challenge several times, but at some point, something gave them the little extra push to finally decide to get on board for the challenge. That special spark of motivation is precious, because that's the moment to kick-start whatever habit you're trying to implement. By the time the reminder rolls around, that motivation might be gone.

The beginning of the month is a great reference point, but any day is a great day to start taking steps towards leading a better life! Why wait? That would be the same logic as quitting your challenge half-way through the month, just because you only achieved your goal 8/15 days... and feeling like you "messed up the month" and should start again...

The way I see this challenge, it serves to encourage people to strive and do better... and make it as easy as possible for all of us to reach our goals. We wouldn't be here if we didn't need support, so let's give all the support we can and make it easy for everyone!

And if they accomplished their goal only for the last 5 days of the month... well, great! That's 5 more days of a good life habit! I'm sure people are adults enough to understand they might not have fully formed the habit, and sign up for the same one next month...

Well sorry, that was a long post. And, as spurlis pointed out, it's not something that has great consequence. I'm personally extremely happy to be here, and so far my habit's going pretty well!

- V

I found out about the Forum too after Febuary 1st but I joined anyway. I am making good progress and I am happy I joined even if I won't end up doing it the entire month (since I missed a few days). I voted against locking. The internet is such a crazy thing where you happen upon older information all the time...in that case, it would be nice to keep it open.

I say quit being so intense about this and just focus on your own habit change.