Can I be happy while knowing that there is suffering?

I hate to sound trite, but even suffering has its purpose, even suffering unto death. Not only does it have a huge impact on the person suffering, but also on those inflicting and witnessing it.

Now, that's a hard philosophy to keep when actually confronted with pain (yours, that of those close to you, or even on TV), but I think it still holds true. As the old lady said in Children of Men, everything happens for a reason. The British guy got pissed off at her over it, and even she was bewildered by the events going on around her, but what she had said still rang true.

A related trouble that has been on my mind is the Christian's heavy guilt that many, many people will go to Hell (in my case, most of my own close family and almost all my friends). Sometimes it's very hard to deal with, and I break down in tears over it. The only comfort I can take at all is that it's not my fault, nor is it in my power to change it; God decides.

I guess the same goes for your question about world suffering; you can keep your little corner happy, but one single person can't make the entire world happy without employing some sort of mind-control beam.

The short answer is, you don't need to concern yourself with the business/happiness/suffering of people you don't know.

I think most people feel they "ought" to feel sad and/or responsible for all the bad things in the world, but there's no need. Happiness is a choice, it doesn't cost anything, and you being happy is not bad for anyone else. In fact, your being happy will make the people around you happy, and the world will be better for it.

I don't mean to imply that you should be ignorant of what's going on in the world, or that you shouldn't do anything about it. It's just that, you being unhappy isn't going to help, and neither should you let the world tell you to be unhappy.

I just realized that The Monkeysphere is extremely relevant here. I don't mean to spam that link (I posted it in another thread a few days ago), but it seems peculiarly relevant in both places.

Kirkland, I wouldn't stray into 'happiness is always a choice; people who aren't happy are doing it on purpose' territory. Even Our Leader did it recently, and got a collective slap from several people in the comments (myself included).

in my personal opinion you are over complicating it(something that i do and believe all humans do to a point) you cant worry about the suffering of others you cant even help or don't even know, its to much to ask of your self its just to much. my Philosophy of life is in a nut shell "let the chips fall where they may" stuff happens and you cant look on the past with doubt, perhaps look forward to the future and live in the present. you will find happiness but i think you find your own happiness...

I thought that the Buddhist view is that life IS suffering... And in order to have a fulfilled life you have to end the desires that make you suffer.

Everyone is going to suffer. Well-off rich people suffer. Starving people suffer. But those same people can choose to be happy or unhappy about it. It's all about your approach, really. If you're starving and you sit there on your recliner and whine about how unfair the world is, then maybe you deserve your suffering. There are positive ways to approach all problems in life, in my opinion.

It's not up to you how people approach happiness. Do we have this idea that people in 3rd world countries are starving and crying themselves to sleep at night waiting for us to come make big changes? I think it's pretty ethnocentric to assume that the 3rd world lifestyle is unlivable or unhappy. Just because we can't imagine ourselves there.

So yeah, don't worry about things you can't change. If you can change them, and you feel passionate enough about it, go for it. But even people who you help are going to take it differently. Some will be unhappy because you think they need help when they don't. Some will be appreciative. But not everyone is going to be happy in this world no matter what happens.

Others have already answered you well, but to put it simply: you can't let the suffering of others affect your personal happiness. You should be concerned about other human beings -- this is good. But there will always be suffering. Yin and yang. Good and bad. Spring and Winter. For everything there is a season.

Could I suggest that you read the book "City of Joy". Sorry I don't remember the author, but you could soon google it. It's a true story written by a Catholic priest who goes to live with the rickshaw drivers in Calcutta. There is no religious bias at all in the book, so don't be put off by that.... it's years since I read it, but it left lifelong impressions on me. I can't recommend it highly enough for anyone who wonders about suffering, poverty, disease and death and how people deal with that every day of their lives.

Here's the Wikipedia article for the book. Never read it myself (Song of Kali sort of turned me off to India in general).

I find it sort of funny that people post here all the time about books by swami, gurus, and other Eastern teachers, but only when a book about a Catholic is mentioned does someone feel the need to note, "There's no religious bias." Sometimes, on this forum, I feel as if I'm among strangers.

Well, to balance things out, I'll quote Joyce Meyer on loss. She's a wise, wholesome Christian, but don't be put off by that.

[quote:6f03c2afd8="In The Power of Simple Prayer, Joyce Meyer"]One way God may need to deal with us is to separate us from some of the people in our lives. For example, we may depend on a friend too much, so much in fact that we do not lean on the Lord as we should. If we cannot maintain balance in relationships, then God will sever them so that we may belong to Him entirely.

Another area in which He may deal with us might be when we have a job or a position at church or in the community, a position that makes us feel important and secure. God wants us to be rooted in Him, not in our positions. He wants us to know we are valuable because He loves us, not because we have a certain title or role to play. God will remove things we cannot keep in balance.

Having friends or positions is not wrong. In fact, God desires that we enjoy both, but He does not want us to depend on them too much. Everything in this world can be shaken and changed in a moment of time, only God never changes. He wants us to depend first and foremost on Him so that we don't get hurt and disappointed by people and things if they should change when we least expect it.

The simple answer to this is that life is suffering.

ALL of our rage, angst, anxiety and misery comes from our belief that as humans we have the agency to change this simple fact....this is an illusion that means that we go through life blinkered to the idea that beauty is to be found in evry facet of life, no matter how horrendous this my appear.

Modern society truly defines this philosophy...everywhere you look we see people who strive and stress in the belief that they can remove suffering from life, a hopless and futile task.

Can't remember who said it but I like the quote that life is what goes on between the cracks.

Okay, but what about minimizing suffering (both your own and that around you)? Is that hopeless and futile, too?

Okay, but what about minimizing suffering (both your own and that around you)? Is that hopeless and futile, too?

-"FekketCantenel"

Well, I think it boils down to expectations. If we think that our actions will actually change the 'bigger picture' then I think we are fooling ourselves. This is not to advocate that we sit by and discharge all our individual and collective responsibilty for our action or non action but rather that we accept what we can actually control in our lives and also why we are excerting that control.

Many people, 'saints' if you like dedicate their lives to reducing suffering and only they know why they choose to do that and I imagine they are secure in their choice for doing so. The whole essense of suffering is that it is part of the human condition and that this condition thrives on our desires, wants, cravings and fears. Anything done with a pure heart and with pure mindfulness is beautiful but non action through the same motives is as valid and as precious.

Buddhism really reminds me of AA's serenity prayer: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. There are ways to help ease the suffering of those you have the power to effect. And I believe if everyone acted on that, the world would have a lot less suffering, and that's not a futile goal. Buddhism to me (I'm totally shooting in the dark here, I'm not a buddhist), is a lot more individual-basis though. You can ease your own suffering by ridding yourself of your desires. But you can't just walk up to other people and say, "the reason you're upset is because you desire X." They have to let go of it on their own.

But as a buddhist, you're still filled with compassion and concern for others. So while the goal of "stopping all suffering" might be futile, it's not like you're going to avoid doing so.

Thoughts? I'm really just sorting this through my head right now.

I've enjoyed the discussion so far.

My tuppence is that suffering, according to Buddhist teaching, is misleading. As we study, we learn that suffering might better be translated as unsatisfactoryness. The suffering comes from our desire to hold on to something so that it never changes. Reality teaches us that ALL things change. It is only when we reach a point of equanimity, walking the middle way in our reaction to what happens in our life that our suffering reduces.

As far as the idea of eternal happiness, not gonna happen. Kinda like trying to pick up one end of a stick. All things are cyclical, so we learn to take it as it comes. Don't wail if life sucks; don't do the happy dance if life is good. Just walk the walk; help others where you can.

As far as OTHERS being happy is concerned, our compassion leads us to help where we can. Be moved by the suffering of others, but don't be crippled by it. Developing your equanimity allows you to wade into the cesspool and lend a hand without having the crap stick to you. One of the reasons that the lotus is a symbol of Buddhism. The roots are in the muck; they rise up through the groaty water; the bloom beautifully where they are.

Harry

The simple answer to this is that life is suffering.

-"whataprettyworld"

Hmmm...

The simple answer for me is that life is happiness.
Occasionally suffering sneaks in, but life is happiness.

If you're coming from the place that life is suffering, and happiness occasionally sneaks in... well, that's quite a sad place to be.

I love where I'm at, and like a tree, I also love to grow and become more of what I desire.

The simple answer to this is that life is suffering.

-"whataprettyworld"

Hmmm...

The simple answer for me is that life is happiness.
Occasionally suffering sneaks in, but life is happiness.

If you're coming from the place that life is suffering, and happiness occasionally sneaks in... well, that's quite a sad place to be.

I love where I'm at, and like a tree, I also love to grow and become more of what I desire.

-"Jon"

There is actually a specific question being answered in the OP and the answer was in reference to this.

I know you were responding to the OP. Why do you mention this? Is it because I quoted you?

I'm mostly just referring to the whole "life is suffering" idea in general. It's not really a response to you personally.

I know you were responding to the OP. Why do you mention this? Is it because I quoted you?

I'm mostly just referring to the whole "life is suffering" idea in general. It's not really a response to you personally.

-"Jon"

I see, crossed wires.

Sorry for the confusion. :)

I found this site to be a helpful resource on basic teachings of Buddhism: http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/footsteps.htm